Channeling and Cameras

[Jacques]

So as I sat through a three hour lecture on how to fill out a student's course file, many thoughts occurred to me. None related to the topic of the lecture of course, but one stood out enough for me to bother writing it down.

Channeling and cameras.

Can Channelers see Weaves through a video camera? I would assume not, but what is everyone's thoughts on this?

Then, related to this thought. Should a Channeler not be able to see Weaves through a video camera. When a Channeler learns a new weave, it becomes ingrained into them to only be able to do it one way. So say in regards to 'throwing' a fireball. If they learn to execute the Weave with a physical throwing motion, that's the only way they can do it from then on (generally).

Does that hold true to being able to see the Weaves as well? As in, if a Channeler is blinded, can they construct a Weave? And if a Channeler is wearing, say, night-vision goggles, would they be able to see their Weaves, or even be able to construct a Weave at all?

If a Channeler is wearing 'modern' powered armour suits which exist in some of the in-setting militaries, would they be able to Channel while wearing a helmet which displays everything on an in-helmet screen, filtered through various cameras fixed to the outside of the helmet?

[Nox]

The video camera on we had a long discussion about way back when Nick was still around. We came to the conclusion that video cameras could not pick up the channeling and even a channeler watching a live feed wouldn't see channeling. I don't remember the basic reasoning behind it.

A blind channeler cannot create weaves - it's a visual thing it must be seen. I'm not sure if you had a once sighted character and then turned blinded as you could not. If you had it memorized and didn't need to see it possibly, but that would take years of practice.

Filtering through the cameras is where I'd say they'd have a problem, if that's their only view port they can't see their weaves.

Pasting the conversation two and I had on it in chat:

[13:17:51] <NumberTwo> Just posted a question on the OOC board.
[13:18:16] <Aria> the answer is no
[13:18:28] <Aria> we had a long discussion about that back with Nick
[13:19:27] <Aria> but there are far more questions there than the first lol
[13:22:05] <NumberTwo> Came to mind as I was thinking of the new powered armour suits the Legion is about to receive, in regards to Gio's Legionnaire character. And Jaxen's, eventually, as he can Channel too.
[13:22:15] <Aria> *nods*
[13:22:34] <NumberTwo> They wouldn't get as much benefit out of the suits as regular Legionnaires, as the entire system is built to function off the helmet's various cameras and systems.
[13:27:27] <NumberTwo> *thumbs up*
[13:22:46] <Aria> I think helmets with HUDs are okay... and landwarriors too... where you still see OUT of them but not camera related optics
[13:23:34] <Aria> If they aren't relying on cameras to see in front of them, I'd think they'd be able to channel just fine... but like they couldn't see someone channeling behind them through cameras
[13:23:44] <NumberTwo> Yeah, if you can see through the helmet visor or whatever, with your naked eyes, it would work fine certainly. But the various optics and camera features would be useless to a Channeler.
[13:24:01] <Aria> yeah for channeling purposes
[13:24:39] <NumberTwo> But can a Channeler build a Weave if they cannot see the Threads? I can't recall if they can Weave blindfolded and the like. I'm sure the more skilled types can, but what about rookie Channelers
[13:24:40] <NumberTwo> ?*
[13:25:03] <Aria> no
[13:25:45] <Aria> I remember there being a reason that a near blind character was almost told they couldn't have the character because of a channeler couldn't weave without tseeing the weaves
[13:26:13] <Aria> dragonmount's rp rules come straight from the books for the most part so I assume it's a hard and fast WoT world rule
[13:26:21] <NumberTwo> So they wouldn't be able to Channel through a camera view, because they can't see the Threads?
[13:26:25] <Aria> yeah

[Nox]

Bas found a quote:

<dl>
<dt>Quote:</dt>
<dd> </dd>
</dl>
ROBERT JORDAN
Someone asked how difficult it is for a blind person to channel, but I didn't make a note of who. In any case, it is difficult but not impossible. The different flows have different feels, though saying they have different flavors might be as accurate. In the comic, we use colors, not because they actually have colors but because they also can be told apart by sight. Someone who was blind and who tried to learn to channel would be able to differentiate between flows of the Five Powers. The difficulty would be in learning to make the weaves.
TAGS
channeling, fiver powers, one power, weaves

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=250 -&gt; #9 in the list.

[Ascendancy]

Agreed on those points.

If a person was born blind but also born a wilder, i'd hypothesize that they would eventually end up sparking like normal - because most wilders cant see weaves until they are taught to see them anyway. so its possible to channel while blind but i dont think that person would ever become good at it (ie, asha'man/aes sedai competency).

[Jacques]

Oh yeah! There was one more avenue of thought to this.

For the containment of Channelers in a setting where Shielding and Gentling has yet to be really figured out. Once learned that Channelers cannot (for the mean time at least) Channel through a camera. Rather then putting them into chemical-induced comas, or leaving them so zonked out as to be functionally useless, would a Man-In-The-Iron-Mask style helmet with a camera and a monitor within the mask, so they can see without being able to see Threads, work to keep arrested Channelers in check?

[Jaxen Marveet]

Sounds hot.

[Nox]

Of course Jaxen would think it's Hot lol.

I like the idea of that being used as containment. Definitely would restrict people.

[Ivan Sarkozy]

The only thing in the books I can think of that might have a bearing was Rand's experience in the box in Lord of Chaos. He was held in a dark box and was shielded and speaking to LTT. When the shields were tied off he was able to break it and then channeled, blowing the box he was inside of apart.

I wonder if cameras on someone's eyes would be similar. Could they get a weave of air between the camera and the skin and blow the thing off?

Anyway, just adding my 2 cents.

[Ascendancy]

I'd imagine being captured by authorities and strapped into some sort of video-camera mask thingy would be rather emotionally difficult, likely too difficult to attain the appropriate serenity/control to channel for a newb channeler. a more established master/expert channeler may come up with the idea to blow the camera off their face. Physically there is unlikely to have enough room between your skin and the mask to fit a weave in there (whereas with a box there would be more room).

So, possible, but situation and character-dependent on whether its likely to happen.

[Ascendancy]

On a side note, I will have to remember this darkness trick to incapacitate channelers. would be useful in Hades' reborn bag of tricks when someone is too strong to shield (and also we haven't rediscovered shielding yet either).