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+--- Thread: Furia and the Atharim (/thread-178.html)
- Ascendancy - 07-24-2013
I hear there were lively inquiries into the nature of the relationship between the Atharim and the Furia.
Questions which came up:
Do the Atharim see them as useful people, or useful things? Are they an asset that belong to the Atharim? What would they do if they encountered a Furia that wasn't of the Atharim? What if they're able to identify them at birth, or if an Atharim Furia were to run off to birth her child away from the Atharim fold? If the Atharim can identify potential Furia, would they go out of their way to acquire them and raise them as their own?
As an example, Rune. Was her mother really killed by a Wefuke? Is her uncle really her uncle? Or was she a Furia of the Atharim, who tried running away? What if they came after her, killed her, and gave her child to one of their own? Her 'uncle' in this case. Are they really related?
Rune was just an example, as her background story lends to the 'question' easily. But yeah-- Do the Atharim see Furia as people with useful skills, or as a thing, a creature that had been made specifically to help the Atharim do what they do?
And, drum roll please, the answer:
This was the exact sort of thing i meant by the events from here on out being author driven. You guys, as writers especially of the 'new generation' of atharim get to do some world building in all this! I specifically left some things ambiguous so players can have a chance to craft.
Therefore, the discussion is now officially open. What say you, players?
The best place to start, I believe is to ask yourselves this. Are Furia human at all?
- Hood - 07-24-2013
I, in my very professional and esteemed opinion, feel that whomever came up with this deeply important question, is really on to something. And is probably ridiculously brilliant, and handsome. Of course.
As I'm not versed in...uhhh...I dunno what sort of degree would cover this kind of thing? Social....social/cultural studies stuff I guess? Anywho...usin' my wordz and all that goodly stuff. Are Furia human at all?
I'd be more prone to believe that the Furia are human. Just like Channelers and like...Wolfbrothers and what not, that it's a naturally occuring ability in humans. But is it an entierly random thing, or is it a genetic trait?
If it's genetic, if it passes from mother to daughter, then the Atharim would likely have made it a point to keep track of the Furia through the generations, and made a point of keeping them in the fold. They've had a long time to sort this out, so in all likelyhood, most Furia are Atharim by now (again, if it's a genetic trait, and not a random 'will of the Creator/as the Wheel wills it).
In most cases, being Atharim is a family tradition; outside recruitment is a challenge at the best of times. How do you take a full grown adult, who up till yesterday knew monsters weren't real, and turn them into a full fledged hunter of those things that go bump in the night? Can you really risk bringing a total unknown into your super-secret organization? Can they be trusted to keep the secret, and to operate in the shadows?
By keeping it within the family, so to speak, each generation of hunters is raised within that secret society. It's their life, their entire world, and it holds their ultimate loyalty (minus them rowdy rebelious teenagers, but they usually grow out of it, right?).
So back to the Furia. If it's genetic, then most Furia are raised Atharim. The Atharim would come to take it for granted that Furia are part and parcel (part in parcel? is that even a saying?) with the Atharim. They've always been Atharim, they always will be Atharim, right?
So I figure that the Atharim see the Furia as, probably, human, but more importantly as an asset of the organization. They can't be allowed to live 'normal' lives, as the Atharim task is too important. Could they even be trusted to be? Without the years of training to control and understand their abilities, would a Furia be able to function on their own? Or would the constant barrage of emotions eventually drive them insane, perhaps to the point of violence, making them no better then the monsters the Atharim hunt?
So in the end, my vote is that while Furia are human, the Atharim see them as a tool, an asset. Perversion (intentional or not) of their own history would be an easy thing in this case, to 'edit' the origin myths of the Furia such that they are 'known' to have always been of the Atharim. Furia outside the Atharim fold would be hunted and either recruited or killed. And if killed, never in a way that loyal Furia would know of it, unless to serve an example of why the Furia need to stay with the Atharim. Not as some veiled threat, but more of a 'look, she went crazy and murdered people, because she was alone. You're safe with us though.'
That's enough ramblnig for me for now. I should really be wordifyin' a post or something.
- Thalia - 07-25-2013
Yeah, my opinion is also that the Atharim would view furia as human rather than "other." The example I used last night was something along the lines of the ability still being a very human thing - as a genius is gifted with intelligence, a furia is gifted with empathy. Which is where it strikes a significant difference from other human supernaturals; they're still human in nature, just highly developed. Plus, they're not dangerous. Sure, one might go a bit crazy or whatever, but it'd be no different to a normal human doing the same thing. Not like a Rougarou, who is violent in essence, or a channeler who - if they do go crazy - are going to potentially do a lot more damage, ie the godswar.
I actually don't think the Atharim would have had much choice in the acceptance of furia in their ranks. Because, as an ability, how do you detect it? It has little physical manifestation unless the person is willing to share what they sense, or feel it so strongly that it impacts their ability to lead a normal life. Before the Atharim even knew what furia were they would inevitably have had some within the organisation - because furia are supposed to be attracted to injustice against the natural balance anyway, and that's a strong part of what the Atharim feel they do (and until the return of channelers/gods were doing).
By the time furia had a label, I think it would have been too late to suddenly purge the ranks - particularly because furia are such a big asset. They're the best means (up until the return of channelers, anyway - get to that in a minute!) the Atharim have of detecting non-human emotion in human shaped monsters. An exceptionally skilled wolfkin, for example, with a couple of contact lenses and a heap-load of control, is going to be able to exist fairly normally in society. But they aren't going to be able to hide their naturally wolfish nature from a furia. Thus furia can do something a regular Atharim couldn't.
I agree, once discovered, their origins would have been bent to suit Atharim ideals. If furia had already existed within the organisation, I think the Atharim would have taken ownership of them via the mythos. It's a very small step from "They [furia] were particularly concerned with homicide, violence, and traitorous acts against the gods" to "They were particularly concerned with homicide, violence, and traitorous acts of the gods."
But that's where my opinion diverges from Hood's. I don't think the Atharim would see them as an asset or weapon, but as something divine. A manifestation of their right to protect the world from the things that go bump in the night. Because they are able to do something regular atharim can't (detect non-human emotion in human shaped monsters) and because they're so rare, I would think they have a decent status within the Atharim itself. As special in a good way.
From Atharim to Atharim there would obviously be discrepancy. Some are going to view furia as "other" or as simple weapons or assets because they're so indoctrinated. But I think officially, and to stem that kind of infighting, the stance would be that furia were special, destined Atharim - proof that even if something wiped out every traditionally Atharim family in the world, Atharim (furia) would still be born to balance the world and protect it. Which would inevitable make them quite protective over families that have a history of furia children (supposing it's hereditary).
For furia born outside of the Atharim tradition, I imagine they would be given the option of joining - since it is their destiny, what they were born for - or being killed. Because if the existence of furia supports the existence of the Atharim in the doctored mythos, they don't have the choice to refuse to belong. They ARE Atharim, whether they wish it or not.
So. Channelers. Now that they're back, I guess this is where the Atharim are going to start to have some trouble. Because channelers are still human and do still have human emotions - how are the furia going to react to that? It's one thing killing a human looking monster you can feel is not human, but quite another murdering someone when you can taste their very real very human fear. And I suppose that's where some furia (perhaps particularly the ones not brought up to be Atharim) will begin to discover how the mythos about them was changed - because channeler/gods are supposed to be among the things a furia protects. And then we'll potentially get a whole new subset of women - those who wish to protect the channelers from the Atharim, particularly now, when they're just emerging and vulnerable to being offed by the Atharim.
- Aria - 07-25-2013
I believe that Furia are human as well. I view them as empaths, humans with extraordinary gifts.
I'm not sure there I have an opinion on the assets of the Atharim idea or the genetics idea. Sure it can be genetic, but it's essentially a mutation and mutations can pop up anywhere at any time so the Atharim can't know every single one out there, only those that have come forward.
- Jaxen Marveet - 07-26-2013
Not that I'm furia -- or atharim -- but figured I'd jump in here.
Definitely on board with furia being human. Even though both groups have been around thousands of years, I find it hard to buy in that the Atharim have the monopoly on all families with histories of furia. In centuries past, if a woman started talking about feeling others' feelings, she'd probably be burnt at the stake. Therefore, I doubt it'd be discussed openly. Those that are lucky enough to be born into an Atharim family or recruited into the group would probably cultivate and use their skill.
So I see it as the dual atharim / furia women are likely quite useful to the Atharim, but there could be regular born furia as well.
- Rune - 07-26-2013
I like what everyone has been saying. I also think we should add that you can have gradations of furia. Like Aria is really really sensitive to every emotion around her, especially if she gets touched, but Rune only perks up around really strong emotions, but she can follow the source of the emotion pretty easily too.
- Aria - 07-26-2013
kinda like the strength in the OP? but more sensitivity than strength cause even if you are more sensitivity doesn't make it better, honestly I'd think it'd be worse even for the job they are asked to preform, too many emotions can get in the way of the one you are tracking.
- Thalia - 07-27-2013
Maybe the Atharim would have their own way of grading a furia's sensitivity?
Regarding furia existing outside the Atharim, of course they would - I absolutely agree that those born outside a traditionally Atharim family would be nigh on impossible to detect. Unless the furia divulged it herself, and she'd have many reasons not to do so.
But I also think a furia's very nature would drive her toward a calling that'd allow her to fulfil her nature - that is, setting right the imbalances in the world. One of those ways would be to join the Atharim - and I'd argue that the furias ability to sense emotion would also clue them in to the fact there are things that go bump in the night out there anyway. Which would potentially lead them to the Atharim rather than the other way round.
Unless we're saying the furias of today are only highly sensitive empaths and are no longer driven like the ones in the mythos. In which case, ignore me!
I definitely think the Atharim would kill any furia they did discover who refused to join them. If furia are concerned with justice and balance blah blah blah, then any furia who couldn't understand and support the Atharim cause would clearly be a threat, because by default she would be supporting what they oppose. Even if we decide they're not, and are simply empaths, I still think they would be inclined to offer the join or die choice. The Atharim aren't likely to make the exception of letting them live free, I don't think, because although furia are essentially human, they've still given them a supernatural label by giving them a mythos and a name. Atharim still kill Naga, after all, and after reading their mythos it seems their only crime beyond having been made for war by the 'gods', is that they don't have a human appearance. It isn't just about "evil" - it's about protecting the Atharim ethos, right? Giving a free pass for furia lays the groundwork for doing so for others, and I don't think the Atharim (the older generation, at least) would have left that loophole open.
So yeah, furia would exist outside the Atharim, but those who were discovered and refused to join would be hunted just the same as any other monster. In my opinion anyway!
- Hood - 07-31-2013
Alrighty, let's sum up what we have so far.
Strongly agreement that Furia are human, not 'something else.' Atharim may have 'edited' ancient history/origin story of the Furia such that it would seem something of divine intent that the Furia be fo the Atharim. Whether the Furia are of some sort of divine origin or not, all historical evidence would say they've always worked hand-in-hand with the Atharim.
So do the Atharim see the Furia as an asset/tool, or something truely divine and destined to be of the Atharim? Perhaps it's a matter of rank = knowledge? The more important you are in the Atharim, the more access you have to the older source materials, movnig away from what may have been edited and to the actual true records. The average Atharim would be taught from a young age that Furia are divine and fated to be Atharim, but more important members get to read the books that date back from the God Wars, that haven't been edited, and learn that the Furia were perhaps created by Channelers of old in some fashion? Or perhaps that they existed even then, as an unexplained natural ability that has always existed. And that, GASP! they worked for the 'Gods' (Channnelers) as often as for the Atharim. After all, Furia would have been a valuable asset to ferret out Atharim assassins.
Join or die? Whether being Furia is hereditary or entirely random, either way it's assured that the Atharim don't have a monopoly on them. So some are born outside the Atharim fold, and outside their doctrine. If they are of a divinely mandated origin, they all naturally seek justice, so would in some way be flagged by the Atharim.
Their abilities would allow them to see past the veil, so to speak, that prevents common folks from realizing there are monsters in the world. If of divine mandate, they would surely cross paths with Atharim hunters at some point. And then the question arrises; do they join the Atharim or not? And if not, would the Atharim let them continue to exist?
As Thalia mentioned, having Furia running around outside the Atharim would be bad for the family as a whole. Furia are divinely mandated to work with the Atharim, so why is that one over there NOT Atharim? Is it not a divine rule? What else are the higher ups lying about? QUESTIONS ARE BAD!
Are some Furia stronger/more sensitive then others? This makes sense. I'm too tired to think of ways of expanding on this point more. You guys get it. *shrug*
So the questions now seem to be...
Divine, natural, created: Are Furia something that has always existed and are smiply Empaths? Are Furia something that are driven to seek justice, or would one be just as happy being a fortune teller or some psychiatrist or something like that, living a 'normal' life? Were they a creation of the God Wars (this is the least likely in my opinion)?
Asset or Divine: Do Atharim see them as something that should be only in the Atharim ranks, or do they see them as some sort of divine evidence that what they do is right?
Is it hereditary or random?
Degrees of strength/sensitivity?
Again, it's 0300hrs, and I am very tired. So this may not be as coherent as I like to think.
- Aria - 07-31-2013
I don't think they were created. I think that it's something that persists through the ages... Sniffers in the WoT basically are what Furia boil down to.