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+--- Thread: Combating Channelers 101 (/thread-139.html)
- Drayson - 05-23-2014
So, how would regular folks (especially law enforcement and military) deal with Channelers in the modern age? We've access to a bewildering array of lethal and non-lethal options, and has been pointed out a time or twenty in the novels, an arrow to the back works just as well on a Channeler as on any person.
Channelers are, at the end of the day, human, with all the same weaknesses and susceptibilities. If caught unawares, they die just as easily as anyone else. So what works on a person can work just as well on a Channeler, given the right opportunity. So to rule out the easy stuff...
Swords and knives and daggers and bows and guns and bullets and poison and...etc...
But what sort of weapons exist in 2045 that would be especially effective at dealing with a Channeler that is, perhaps, aware of the danger? When they can throw up walls of Air or toss a fireball in their own defense?
Modern militaries and law enforcement agencies are developing and employing all sorts of non-lethal weapon systems.
LRADs (long range acoustic devices) use directed, high-pitch sound waves to disable people. The sounds can drive people to their knees or force the to retreat, and has proven effective at dispersing crowds. In 2045, who knows what it could do? There's scientific evidence that if you have a dream that contains sound, the muscles of your inner ear respond as if receiving actual noise, and that sound can effect emotions. Is it possible that by 2045 they've isolated certain sound waves that can stimulate emotions in people? Or at the least, have they isolates certain pitches that can disable a person? (ie: Southpark's 'Brown Noise')
- It is known in the novels that Channelers can create Wards against sound, usually intended to keep sound from within the Ward from getting out, but surely would work just as well the other way around, meaning a prepared Channeler could protect themselves against an LRAD system.
Microwave weapons, similar to LRADs, use microwaves to disorientate the target, making them physically ill. These styles of weapons have shown up in threads already, but were indicated to be 'outdated' models. What can the microwave weapons of 2045 do?
- Can Channeling stop microwaves? It can stop sound waves, sure, but microwaves are very different. However, they can also effect light, creating illusions or making themselves invisible (again, a Ward used in the novel series that hid the main characters from view). If they can stop or influence light waves, can they similarly effect other types of energy wave?
Dazzlers, basically just very painfully bright flashlights that blind and disorientate in a strobe effect. These are often mounted to firearms or are employed as flash-bang like weapons (in this case, flash rather then bang). Something to this effect is seen in the movie 'Kick-Ass' employed by Hit Girl when rescuing Kick Ass and her father).
- Again, there is evidence that Channelers can effect light, so would a Dazzler do much in this case?
Gas. Tear gas, nerve gas, blister agents, knock out gas, etc. Channelers need to breath just like everyone else. Gas is a difficult weapon to employ, as generally effects a wide area, but is most effective in buildings.
- Channelers can create gusts of wind. They can also create domes of hardened air, with convenient chimneys that can reach fairly high into the air. They could create such a dome around themselves after pushing the gas away, and be fine.
Tasers and darts. Both effective against humans in general. However, the act of darting a person with drugs is a dicey one; you cannot be sure how much of a dose is needed to drop a person, and it could prove just as deadly as a bullet in the right circumstances.
- Again, walls of Hardened air could render these sorts of weapons useless. If you can't hit your target, you can't drop them, after all.
Explosives. A rather extreme measure, but unexpected explosions should have no trouble taking out a Channeler. Things like missiles or tank shells are pretty bloody fast moving, and would be, at best, exceptionally difficult to stop.
- Exceptionally difficult to stop, unless you were aware it was coming or already had a wall of Air or some such similar defense up.
So what else can folks think of? What would they have in 2045 that could defeat a Channeler that's prepared? And what sort of defenses could regular folks have against a Channeler?
- Michael Vellas - 05-23-2014
It would be very hard to defeat a channeler who is AWARE of the dangers, if they are Expert or above.
I don't think there would be any certain way to kill them in that state. Guns etc.. for the average Joe are quite effective, as the channeler would have to be weary and focus very hard on avoiding/blocking the bullets.
The easiest method to kill a channeler who is unaware would be sniping.
- Thalia - 05-24-2014
Like Michael says, it's only Expert level and above that would be difficult to kill. Baring blind luck, I don't think the rest would be capable of defending themselves from the types of weapons listed, even if they were aware they were being attacked. Because even if they somehow had the skill, would the majority (the minority more likely to be our PCs =P) really be able to channel successfully under such duress? And also considering nearly all Channelers have blocks that might prevent them defending themselves when they need it, right now Channelers are at their most vulnerable.
Another way would be to use Channelers to fight Channelers, as in to indoctrinate and train them into military and law enforcement. More of a long term goal, probably.
- Connor Kent - 05-24-2014
I dont know that defence against light based attacks is really possible. In the novels they are bending light using air density (as water bends light for example). IIRC, when Rand made the invisibility around egwene in LOC, she could still *see* the tower embassy. Which meant photons had reflected off them were still passing through rands weave and making it to her eyes (rj was a physicist). The weave disguises also a allowed light in as you have to see where you are going.
Given the speed of light and those examples, any light attack should work. Now if the channeler had seen one used and planned ahead of time, then maybe (maybe) he could device a defence. Maybe a partially reflective air weave that acts as a light filter. Such a weave however would severly limit visibility. The more you need to see, the more you are exposed to. And thats not even touching lethal levels of EM radiation. The wavelength of the various EM radiation make air shields dicey. Hell, the sky is red at sunset because the longer wavelengths of red allow it to pass through more of the atmosphere unimpeded, while blues get scatterred more easily. And the light spectrum is a small patch of that spectrum. Gamma and xrays are longer as is either ultra violet or infrared (dont have a chart but guessing. Whatever are to the right of red). Again, how effective would an air/light defence be?
My guess is a combination of at least 2 methods would be quite effective for most channelers,esp given thals point above. Add more methods at once and the likelihood of success seems to go up.
- Jaxen Marveet - 05-24-2014
You can't defend against everything at once.
All of these defenses are primarily ward-based. The more complicated and powerful the offense (microwaves, gamma rays, light, sound are complicated) the more complex the ward must be.
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t's not possible to set two kinds of wards at once. (III: 63)
-from the WoT concordance
We also know from Rand that if you try to make one ward do too much, it will malfunction.
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<dd> </dd>
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wardings are complex, tenuous weaves, and are often rendered useless if the channeler tries to make them do more than one thing. (V: 273)
Therefore, the best way to take out a channeler is to attack with multiple offenses that would require differing wards.
This is also bearing in mind, like what Thalia was saying, that a channeler, even an Expert, realizes that the One Power can stop light/sound/waves/missiles/etc.
I know that if I were attacked with those LRAD things, I'd cover my ears with my hands, not think to myself "huh I bet I can craft a complex ward that filters out specific sounds so that the blinding pain in my head goes away. No, i'd be running and thinking about the blinding pain in my head. Even if I were an expert channeler. And it'd take a highly trained and disciplined individual to stand and take the few seconds (or minutes) it'd require to build the ward.
Brings me to my next point. Channeling is not instantaneous.
We know from the test for the Shawl that building complicated weaves can take anywhere from a minute to ten minutes. And when shit is falling all around you, you might go blind/sick/die before you can finish building the ward that protects you.
Primarily, a channeler would only be able to defend themselves with a ward if they knew the offense was coming AND they knew the exact mode of that offense. A ward jumps up to protect against gamma rays but instead the attacker flips a switch on their device and the gun spits out UV rays instead. The channeler is then toast.
I think we're all largely screwed if trained military or police descended upon a channeler. Even Nikki B would likely have trouble defending himself against such a crowd.
- Drayson - 05-24-2014
http://www.cracked.com/article_16710_6-non-lethal-weapons-thatll-make-you-wish-you-were-dead.html
Not the most accurate of sources, but this article gives a few ideas of what sort of strange devices they're working on over at DARPA and other similar organizations.
- Thalia - 05-24-2014
Not the most accurate, but the most fun. Those are nasty!
- Nick Trano - 05-24-2014
I think even bullets are more of a threat to your typical channeler than you guys give credit. Unless the guy's constantly holding a shield of solid air in the exact direction where fire is coming from (and you're not always going to be getting shot at from one tick on the directional clock) he'll get hit eventually. Bullets move so quickly that a lot of the time you have a hole in you before you've even heard the sound of the gun shooting.
Adept, Expert, Master, whatever. Doesn't matter because your ability at channeling doesn't go hand in hand with your ability to fight. Now, if you're some crazy warrior channeler who's been practicing how to fight with the power for years I could see you being nigh-unstoppable, but all of our characters are pretty much using it to A: Kill monsters and single individuals who don't expect us to channel or B: Fight other channelers or C: To make cool light shows/Heal people/All those other non-combat-related things.
None of our characters who can channel are getting shot at on a regular basis. Trano is the only one who technically HAS combat experience channeling, and it'd be stupid if I gave him the ability to snap bullets out of the air.
![[Image: 18.png]](http://b3.ifrm.com/static/emo/18.png)
- Drayson - 05-29-2014
At the end of the day, I think Nick's right. Baring the most powerful and experienced of Channelers, most would be unable to defend themselves consistently from attacks. Indeed, bullets are fast, but would be the easiest. A wall of air would make short work of an explosion or a bullet, should the Channeler be aware of the impending attack and have the time to prepare such a defense.
Weapon systems incorporating sound, light, and radiation, however, would be just too exotic for most to think up a defense. At least for the next few years setting-wise. Eventually the more skilled Channelers would catch on and devise ways to protect themselves.
But again, knowing how to and being able to do it in a pinch is two different things. To respond instinctively to a threat is something that comes with practice and drills. Things that most Channelers wouldn't be able to really do. It comes through years of focused training and experience.
So, there are non-lethal weapons in abundance in the First Age setting, final marketable products of the dizzying variety of such things that exist as prototypes and possibilities today. Heat rays, LRADs, microwave weapons, and more. So now, how can they be used, legally, to target Channelers?
Would this be an issue in some countries? To have weapons developed and deployed specifically to target one group of people? Would Channelers have the same rights as everyone else, or will world governments have to draft special laws to allow them greater freedom, or, more likely, far less freedom? They are, after all, potential of great violence and danger, of a sort most of the population simply cannot defend themselves against.
From this, we can draw leads from a variety of real-world sources. Marvel comics, for instance, and the ongoing conflict between Mutants and regular Humans.
In light of the global situation, would some governments work to find and acquire Channelers, to train them for the military, for economic sectors, and as spies? Would they be seen as demons and be hated and killed? Culled from the population? The Atharim could find a wealth of support in it's hidden works regarding dealing with Channelers in these sorts of places, and would find their efforts much more challenging in countries that actively seek out and acquire Channelers.
Once Channelers become a known reality, their connection to the Sickness would be easily extrapolated, making finding many of the currently manifested Channelers a bit easier, as well as finding those that are to come in the years after they become a known phenomenon.
So what can we figure out from this? Will the CCD have specialist task forces for dealing with Channelers that are running rampant? Many would surely end up at the Facility for processing and training. Some would be deemed too dangerous though, and what is to be done with them? Should they be killed, without a trial? Can they even be given a fair trial, considering the things they are capable of?